V- -rt t? -z 'Li-r- = --------j-J U H Hon. Wilfrid Lauder's Great Speech on the School Question. Straight Motion Against the Deceitful and Oppressive Measure Introduced by the Dominion Government. Conciliation and Justice Against Arrogance and Coercion. Tho Pai'liamoat of Canada Should Not Procooa Any Further Govern mont Policy a Bangor to Confederation and no Bonoflt to tho Minority Wrong From First to Last -Tho Law on tho Oaao Answor of tho Manitoba Gov ernment and Their Request for Invoatigation-What Thoy Are Willing to Do How tho Govornmont of Canada Should Havo Acted Tho Doctrine or tho English Liberal School on tho Clorgy ' in Politics Mr. Laurior'a Stand-Tho Grandest Spoooh Elver De livered in Canada. The following 1 a completes report $0 jUntlop, and of all things to do jus- ofUie\iOL.ehdpUvor.*dhyIH)n.Wlltriu|ll to a minority, h always a ki-uiii , ..... __ .,.. L-,.i.....i iau in ti^f. i "-ml noble tiling. 1L 1b one of tho noblest attrlbuto!i of hurmiiNnature. \vn<t outnuied by the arbitrary profrpd- Iiik wdile.li trampled umh r font the dlnnltyund i'1'li-n :'pi-i-i of ti prtiud peo ple, it the hon. f.eul loma n, w Idle he wan trueluf- tho history of Confedera tion, hud roe-died that pane, li mir.ht porhn.ps have slnielt hltn and those around him that I'liorclvc iiiflhod.i never yet led any people to punl and wise action, PAST AGITATIONS. Tho linn. gentleman hasi told us that over til rice (\m federation w^ have been a h.ippy \u op|e, Well, told us that over since Conf- deration wo have been a happy people, Wi 11, II this WI.TO lint HO llllp'H Imil li debate I would cay that If tin- people hn vo beep happy the Cabinet. Mlnhd'-s urn fnrtuiin.ti.dy have* not always been hup* py. But Urn subject is Luo Important for pleu-snntry. 1 take Issue with the hon, Keiitlemnn when hi.- says that the people havo always been happy, Td that the: way the linn, khi- tIonian hus rend the history or i'<in- a<la since Confederation 7 'I'he people or Canada liavu been happy ! Why, what han been the course of evenui ever since wo haw had Conb dt-ra tion V Is It not a flirt that almost from the JlrnL moments of Its exlsteneij until now Confederation baa been loin not oiiee, not twice, but rep* ,it--dl\ by ajtttatlonii which more than mice hn\ e shaken tt to the very routs and threatened itn very existence. Why, the tnlc wan -scared y dry upon the document:! which established ('onfed eration when tho Now lirunswhk school question nrnsc. From New I'lllUt" laws for thn-ie of the Provincial ho';hdn.turoli In ivj-.u'd to education. KXTUAuUIMWAllY POWNUH. .Now, In-fore I r,n imy further, It inity tint hi nnr of place to n'slt, what una tho lea; on lor tlier.f: xtr.iorjjjjmry powers h hi]' imperii d lnh> our u outRuttoriV-In in lurih (lie fKiw it of dlsnllowuueo In concerned, this can I o I raced vvy clem- I> to i he power of ill. allowance w'lileh 1^ poiuiMMed by the Imperial autlmrllle'i ov'ir colontul ljOKl;.latuie;i, Tho Im perial i'rirllameut ba.M tin; power oC dln- iilhuvaiire, ut. tmper\ hdnn, nv< v tho aet:i of llvhe colonial h-i;lnlal Ivo hodi"it. Thlit nuiy be ea -llv uiidi'ijitood, b< chum; co onleji aro (iopondoiH io). Hut tho ridn- tloim pel \\ ei-Ti tlio Doinlnlun nmi t.hu I'rovinee.i art) not the :Juine. itotwi-cn tbe.ie lhero hi no superiority and no interlorlty; all are fijual, v/lth thin ox- cepthiii, that the ljuinlidnn Vnrlla- ineiit 1m Invoiiled with lar^or powers; that It-., po\vor.( of a more extended nnd a more Important diameter than tho l..o<fil I^ej^tula'tu.e. Jndoed it imua be aeeeptod as a duhmi, tliat un der popular Koveriiment tin* ma- JnrHy muni rule. J do not nnain to hay that the majority will alwayo be rluht. No, tho majority may orr, tho ii in Jo lit y may prevaricate, jiut [ am not prepared to nay thut tho mnjorlty will ahvayti do wrrmtf, will alwayn pre- varleale and will alwayn wantonly and wickedly ilu Injustice to tin: minority. H may be that the majority will pre varicate; It may be that the majority wilt do wrotiif to tho minority. What hi the remedy of the minority under i hcM- clii-umt>tn nee:-? The remedy of hnm-iwIHc li spread into Quebec, ami t" minority timti r a free government thence into Ontario, ami for yiuVM. a'i ^ '" .'i.'imte and endravnr to brln/,' cvervone U.mwH, it embittered and im- "Vri* the majority to heir way of tlilnk- pimsionea public opinion of the pnnilu- Iok. This hi the rule under lreo Kov- lon to the exclusion almost of every -inment. Hut under our camlitutlon otlu-r topic. Then, immediately after ' > " "dnmiiy bmi u!m> anotiicr powi r. that tho nttnnu.t by till.-; liuwnunnU, , U may not only imtuto within the oi1 which lln^ hon. Kenlleman wan a f*pi'ere of the I'rnvlnce to roiudnce the member, to take nwav from tin- stnt-l mnjoilty. hut it may api-cal to tho l-.x- niu hook of Ontario the act known a.-i i " ntlv,- of Canada, the 'aiilnment of the lureams hill routed the \v o - 'aoivla, to the people oi Canada, and pie of Ontario to :t detei m'nall'io' thu, ioi-i-e itie n.-me wbleh was cou- 1o maintain their li jrlslatlvo Indepeud*, 'l'"" '" ll"*"' *^v T'luvln.-L' Into the one,, at all lia/.ard^. Then, a few yearn! t'i'1, nr<-.a. ^"W* If In any 3 r-i- aft.-r, the n-peat..d <ll-;ill..wanee hv the! vmee ili,i.. In a contr-t of such hlt- iiivuninu*i.'l of- which ihc h,m. Kenlb- tn n. ..-. that the mlnoilty will not. rest man was a member of the railway le<.?- i : alhilled with the arbtunment <L tho iMlatlop of Manitoba that lefdMaii m by| ni.ijoiUy, li. mma p.- tnat that laet which Mnnltidia -ujuulit to set lid of l,aurler on tho School hill In the 3louHC of Commonn March 3, l^.OG; 'Mr. ^poakor, If, In a -lelmto of nuch moment, it were not out of place for me to make a pergonal reference to mynelf a roferonco which, however, may pcrhnp'i ho juutlflcd, not no much on account of tho foelinjr which may not unnaturally be attributed to me, hoinf? of the race and of the creed of which I am, hut still more in consider ation of tho iva.t responsibility which has born placed upon me by tho too 1-inil re*;iinl o tho friends by whom I am burro uncled hero I would nay that in the course; of my Parliamentary career, during which It him been my duty on more than one occasion to take part In tho dlKCusKlon of those dangerous questions which too often have come before the Parliament of Canada, never did I rise with t^ffrcater Eonae of hceurlty, never did \ feel no t-tronR in the oonsrloupnesa of rlj^ht aa I do now, at thin anxious moment,when in the name of the constitution ho outrageously misinterpreted by the CloverumMit, In the name of peace and harmony In thin land, wh**n in the name of this minority which Hut the hon. Kontlonmn who imfi Hpok- en for the Government knows from hln lonf? Paiilamentary expoiience that amonunt men the ntandard of Justice in not uniform, but iu affected by dif- feroncen of rollclon. dlfferenceu of ed ucation and a multitude of other cir cumstances. Tho hon. tfontleman hi aware more than anybody'else, per- hops, he ouRht to bo aware that In a community with a free government, In a country like thin, whenever upon any question Involving a different con ception of what la rltfht or wron**, a different standard of what 13 just or unjunt, it la the part of statesmanship not to force the views of any section, but to endeavor to brlnj? them all to a uniform standard and a uniform con ception of what Is ritrht. COERCION OF NOVA SCOTT A. The lion, ftcntloman imfl referred at length nnd T do not blame him for that to the history or this Confedera tion. I followed, him closely. There is a page, however, of which 1* might have spoken, but of which he has not said a fdiiRlo word. lb* mij>ht have this hill pretends to r help, in the ( referred to the page of tho history of Oonfuderation which tells us of the manner In which his native Province of Nova Scotia was brought Into tho union. Tho hon. gentleman has not name of thN young nation on which ho many hopes are centred, I rise to a.slc thlr. J'aiiiuinent nut to proceed any further with this bill. (Loud cheers.) the Incubus of tho moicpoly in transportation which had been given' the C. I*. U. brought Manitoba to the very verjie of rebel lion. The day came .when bloodshed was within an-asm-abb: dh'tanc", and it was only v hen the iChiveriMiV'nt de cided to come .down and yh Id that strife was averted. Then arose th agitation consequent on the d.-m tnd for tho disallowance of the Jesuits' Kstate law, which rekindled the re ligious passions and prejudices ol! former yenni and excited them to a very dangerous pitch. Now, again, I am Horry to nay, we aim hwu- the rour coming upon us of an other wn.vo of agitation and civil com motion in this country. The demon nf discord is in the land, blowing Un wind of (strife- over nil and in all di rections, awakening nliimhoi'irg_ pat- nlons, arousing old preJiulU*e.*r "Ton can follow the trace of Its parage in our cities, towns and country village*; nay In the 1 wick woods tu'UlcmeiH-, where the rude toil and anxious dayi of the pioneer do not save him fimr it--: evil suggestions. Still tho luui. gentleman seems to think lightly of this. He thought it would lie misery If we had a civil and religions war. It would he misery, most I Legislatures, perhaps it was not certainly. Hut if religious war Is to| dictated by unmixed wisdom, be brought Into this country, by who.se yor experience has taught us ulone proves that the question at is- si1" !i^ can- which deeply, very deep ly, affects the people in that Province, it Is, theit .'ore, luanil'est, It Is ob- Vlou-i, that If under t tiohe < ircutn- nt.u.ces the minority take an appeal to the i;xei-utl\e of "Janada, to tin* rarll.imeiit of Canada, the biuernes:; of the strife will he Imported Into th" Dominion at large mid there rage not only with equnl vioiuuije._ljut perhaps w 1th incfejised fury. That, has been our experience within the last 'JH, yes almost :10, yeais. Hecall the tlerccnesa of the agitation n*vr the New Jtruns- wick school net; tftink of tho feeling io-oorn.it _by *bn 1|1 entMlPH l|1U'K- lion. In tha.Mi ci tlio whole coun- tty was convulsed, 'In one disallow ance was demanded In the name of Roman Catholicism, while in the other disallowance wsfi demanded in j,ho name ot Protestantism, and the old feuds which divided our ancestors In other lands threatened to invade our country and here work the mischief which the> had, wpr.ked In other lands. In view of tln-se farm wdiat IS the lcsfon to be deducsted from the teaching of our history ? The les.:on we should deduce is that If it was a wise provision to establish thlr,power In the constitu tion for the miporvhion of the Local iim an oMUinl language, one was im not. abnlhml-niT -Heprim te Hchoolii. one won an n"l' csliiJdhiliing a entile nunrantlne, and the last was /in act dealing with public companies. Two of those acts went disallowed and two were allowed to go Into p- -r-rsHMh Which were tins acta which were disallowed " Were th'-y the acts abolishing tin* French language nnd th" t'.epnrate Schools 7 No. those were allowed lo to Into operation, and lh: nets disallowed were the act to estab lish the cattle quarantine In Manitoba , and tlio act to make certain provisions with regard to public oompantcii In Manitoba. The cattle act wan of such great conse quence to the Government, of Canals that they had to disallow It, nnd they disallowed it because they said Ihct was another ait passed by thin Parlia ment which we now know was never applled.Lhls latter fact'being the cus" of the scheduling of our cattle in Eng land. The other net was With regard to public companies, one of the-pro visions of which enacted that if any public binds came within the ponses- hlon' of public eompnnh'H and rested there for ten yearn, nt the end of ten yearn they should revert to the Crown. Tho act was rlinallowed for this reason amongst others : The provisions that land link] by miy enm- pfiny for a Winner period than ten vein.- from the date when such hunls were in"|iilr eit htmll lin forfeited to ninl become vented In lln- Crown for the Use of th* l-rovbu-e m MitnltolJii, except that any company new linldlng liuntH -miy bold Ihi-m for live years from tin* dnte of the piisuhiK >f tlui act. iVOllld Imve the effect of nmll./'atloll hi n- Haeid to all conipunlcs wlilcli, ljeforn thy piimiIiik of the net. |ii-(|<tlnd hinilH In Mnm- lohn under couipeb-nt leuishuhui nnd by Do minion band l'liients, invnlvet' ii brcueh <>r faith b\ cuuslnc a deirlinrntal ehmiU" In the icrnw on whleli the contractu with thou* coiiiy:inie,i were inndo. Kir it wan cnnllscatlon. If I romein- ber right, and I do remember right, one of the complaints of the minority In :ill their petitions was tlrU tiny -\i!io nubj.jctfd to conbs- (.atlon bv Ilu- act of LROO. The power of olsallowaoce has always b< en lield hy the (loveniimTit oppiedte to he c^ienllnl to tho adminl.-'tfat ion of tills Confederation. If they ever had a fair chance of putting Into operation the doctrine whbh they have always preached, tln-y had It, nol when th-y dl-allov ed Hi" cattle fuuirniitlnt! act, but when they did not disallow tne Manitoba s--hool act. Mr Monorieff Would the hon. gen tleman allow me to ask him a ques tion V Dora he think that the Oovcru- incnt should have dli-alluwed that Manitoba schools act ? GOV KRN MK:-!T PROCKDUR.T3. Air. L-aurlor The answer to that question in very plain. Tho hon. gen- .np.mnn iiMkcd mo what was my vlftw- )0(|y The position which I have taken from | forgotten, surely-or if he has he is the the tn^t on this question, and which ll cmly man in thin country who -has have maintained all along up to this, tnat M-\u>n the Idea of Confederation nmni'-nt,and in which I innre than e\ cr j ,t Kiuat, a good, a noble ides hrmly ndy, is of such Hlresgth that wan brought to the attention if easily takes away the pain which no' 0f the p. oplo of Nova Scotia It man of sensitiveness can well avoid dpi not meet with ready acceptance, when, lnipflled by a paramount sense ( and for obvious, verv obvious, reasons, of public duty, he has to take a course j t ;im within the murk when I say that v. lilch he knows may not be freely . Hinue tho days of Athens of old there i-iared in and believed in by all his was never perhaps a corner of the ulends. lint the argument seimis | (..irth of so few Jl[.reh| H0 fcw peoide, which in a given time produced such a galaxy of men of the very to be overv, helming that If this bill wi re to become the law. wiille it would afford no protec tion whatever to the suffering minor ity in Manitoba, It v. oiild he a niobt \h.lent wreech of the principled upon which our constitution is based. The Hist class as the small Province of Nova Scotia. The names or Hunting ton, L'nlacke. Young and Howe abuve all. li owe -are names of men who were tic i'. tin of Uie mui-t famous men of hon. gentlunmn who has Just moved ; t-lMr L-(Mioration the iuunea of men tlio secimd reading of this hill, w.ho conies hai k to tills House again, after an inter", al of several years, to take bis place at the head of his party, and who, we are told. Is to force this bill on his unwlllin-g party, has taken some li edit to himself and tu the- Govern ment of which he 1h a member of be ing the cliamplona uf the minority. In i-,o far as thl.-i contention is concerned I have not the slightest desire to take one single particle from the encomiums to which the Cloverniiient may be en titled ; but the lion, gentleman has largely taken away from the praise which we would gladly have given to jstalesmaies who. If they had moved and acted on a wider and better known theatre, would to-day live not only In the hearts of their own countrymen, as they do now and will forever live, hr would also be honored names action will it be brought but by the action of this Covernment, which, al though it had the methods of ji'Ti'U.n- lon In Its bands, ban chosen to take the methods of coercion in order to ic- drefss a wrong? FIOATUKKS OF TIIK CONSTITUTION There Is one thing that is cer tain at this moment. The atten tion of tUtt-ptroide from all part** of the country Is upon this chamber, and whatever may lie our opinion upon tills question, whatever view:- we may hold as to Lh policy of the- Cov- ernment, there is one thing which cannot be denb d : Thcue frequent ie- currences of agitation and commotion are a severe stialu, and a v >rv '-tevtre strain, upon the tie which binds i'nese Provinces together, mid '.h" d:.n'?er is all the more to be apprehend--'! if, searching further for the cam-'erf which have brought about this comnioi ou. you ibid that on o\.ury ot caslon ilu-ro was only one cause, always the same, and that was the f'auue of our eon- ktitutlun whbh abridges the Indepen dence, the suvci eignty, of the I'rovln- elal legislatures. In una form or other such was the cause of the.,.- agita tions. In view of these salient facts it may not be out of place at piev-nt to look further into the history of our own eouiUi y, and by the dan -; /s through wlileh we have passwl h-irn if possible to avoid the danger with vhlch we are threatened. I call at tention to tliis fact, that u bun the idea of a union of our Provinces was llrht mooted, the question was di-bated whether the bond of union should be legislative or fi dera- tlve. The very for* e of events made this a federative union. The fact that the Provinces are scattered and di vided by long distances and by divis ions of creed and race made it hnoi-ra ti ve that there should be a division of legislative power; a control legis lature to be Invested with that class throughout the civilized world. , oC ftubjt,ctH whleh'affects all the Prov- (Cheers.) That is not all. In Its Isola tion, Its semi-independence, the Pro vince of Nova Scotia had attained a remarkable degree of prosperity. Its merchants, like the morchants of Von- ice, were minces. it is not, cither, to bu wondered at that when ahked to join in tho Canadian Confed eration the people of Nova Scqtln some misgivings as to What would \\avr^lx*^mmjHem(lo.n, ot . ii, Jiut such was akon. There was at luces, and Local legislatures to be ln- \osted with thoHO subjects which alone affect the different communities, This nj division of legislative power in lutely csperUlal to the of government. Tt. tm^d that all tho-^^B^^^B^^^*1711 'JGtween lIUU ,U1 uia-^^WfBaros])et and the _ stitutlon. Though 1 am *, ,red-,t0 Bfty 1nal ln many respects the Canndian eonstitution is far super ior to the American, it may be that in this respect it is not on a par with tho that this it-m'-dy of Interference: with local legislation has never been ap plied and prubn-hly never can be ap plied without rrietion, disturbance and liscunteiit; thai you ennnot apply that 'ene-dy without causing as much dis- ratisfactlou as satisfaction. It must be evident that while you redress the grievance of the minority by such act i* interference you run grave risk of ceaiiiiga gilevanceon the part of the nnjority. Put the remedy of Inti rfer- eu e is found In the constitution ; and, bdiig there, it must be applied. Hit It must be applied ln such :i v ay ay nor to pro\oke irritation ; it must bo applied in such a way tint even thoiv* who suffer by it idull coitiuue to b ve the constitution, shall be ready to live for it, and, If neces- sniv, to die lor ft. The povcr Is there, and, being there, l he aid of the dominion Coveinnient will be i.iUKht by the nilnoiity. What is tin- rule that <mght to be followed V 1 siull be told by the hon. gentleman (Sir Charh-s Tupjierj, in fact he lias nln .,dy told 'ut'.t that the rule works ini'i'iaiiif ally and that no judgment is to le exei eWcd by this Parliament In su-h matters. That cannot be the rule. It cannot be that this remedy is to atply m.'-ihanically. This remedy must be [^i anted or denied, accord- lug ai the circumstances of each case rciiuib-. And that is the very lan guage of the statute that the hon. genth "nan cited a Lew moment:; ago. The nmeily U> to ho sought and ap plied is the circumstances of the ease reijuin; And'it can be Intelligently ap- plu d gily alter full and ample In quiry ' into the facts of the case titid after all means of concilldiou have been exhausted, and only as a last resort. These, h my judgment, are the prin ciples which ought to guide us in this matter. lAud. assuming these princi ple.1 to to true, l may now apply my- Heir bi n history oi this case. HISTOID OP TIUO SCHOO Tlio iito. genth____________ much. In Liiu^fl^^ppp^Tnat I do u for not having - i(A * ^om- Put there are sallont tta wnich lt ,0 we t n Infrnl,^ll'nTT?VG Ulu n-ttention of MMf , J ' iIn h the Legislature of idanitnba, short) (l t p vl oxi.relPG oi the pt v w, lch h , b cr.nJorrediMPoi it th,B parliament, cod rmod by tho I\)orl|ll Parliament. tablis^od ^_W.m of Separate legislature, again Schools. In 1890 the n the full exercise oitfl powcr8'( a^0l. shed those schools jnWi tnp mlnor. -lty, could under ueIr--c,rciJmHtancofl certainly noV PP!it Quiot having a remedy >: the hon. gentleman that ln bring ing forward this bill he In Impelled by the desire of Wolng justled to the minority. Well. U such wero the in tention and the motive of the Govern ment I commend their intention, I commend their motive ; would to hea ven I could likewise commend their uound judgment and coocl sense. To Nova Scotia"svnouvmou-V with "onnroi- lhU W f,on-^it--ic.ii goes much fur- jHn and coercion?' but'I V^ffl^ St Itt^^a^nT^ VaPU- has given to other partlnH/K?."'1 lty would have had rodrcss.JJ the r grlovaricn long ago. \L L1UU An hon. member TIow ? Mr. Laijrler T will toll tho ho epn tlonian how. The hon. genl.7ia" perhaps, lias not l'orgotton that\ iqSi the Legislature' of Manitoba lW-d fonr acts, which c I>ld the hon. gentleiann or any else on thnt hide ever taWo tho view of the tilberal party on the question of disallowance? J mn judging* llieso hon. gentlemen out of their own mouths and by their own doctrine, an(I say Jo the hon. gentle man who has put me the ruination ; If he thinks It was right and proper to disallow the cattle quarantine act would It not have been ton timos bet ter and more advantageous lo the country to disallow this Manitoba school art 7 Hut, air, in this matter tho hon. gentlemen, as usual, apply their doctrine just n.s it suits them. When they.thlnlc it Is convenient to apply the duotrtne they do so, but when they llnd It is Inconvenient they do not apply It. Now, I refer to this matter simply an an answer to the claim which was mado a moment ago by the hon. gentleman, that the Govern ment In this case acted slm'ply as the friends of. the minority. Then they referred the minority to the courts to test the validity of the act. And you remember the terms of the order in Council ; tlwy stated spet Ideally that If a court continued tin; validity of the act Ihen they might come before the Dominion Oowmnient and then the Dominion fiovernmeiit would take up their claims. Well, they went before the courts and they were not su'j- remrnl. The court decided that the act was valid and within the power and purview of the Manitoba Legislature. Then they came again with petitions. Those petit inns af firmed tlntV grievance.! m suli^taiue; flts-i. they said that tho act of 1K0O was an outrage upon their conscience in es tablishing a system of Common f-Vhoobi ; nay, more, that though It wii" nominally a system of Common Schools, yet in reality they were u.-tublisnlng Protestant schools. Then they alleged as another reason that the act was a violation of the compact wlileh had been entered into by the ponulation of the Northwest Territories and the Covernment of Canada, which com pact had been repeated several time** afterwards by the Legislature of Mani toba Itself. Now, sir. the G<>s ornmem, in ray estimation, should have done just one thing above all others when they re- i civad these pi-titlons' thoy should have investigated them; thov should have ascertained tlio facts which were al leged by the minority of Manitoba In order to apply such remedy as the facta warranted. This was tho 11 rut tldag they should have done, lint they did not do it. They went again before tho courts, and this tlnu to ascertain whethei power under thnr^g^^_p^yvcx.n_ the romejliaiai^i^^^ntoj.foro, to ^_ ..ai order which was , and that Parliament had the vvoi'U enforce It by legislation. What was run the duty of the Govern ment TuVgnln I say It was their duty to lnve-tlgato the complaints of tho minority But they failed to do that; they pased a drastic order ln Council, which tby sent to Manitoba, and now they asl us, ln the name of tho min ority, tdpasa this hill, though no in- vestlgattn has ever taken place. Thoy say, in Uo name of the minority, they an hound to puss It. I take issue with them, and In the name of the mhorlty of Manitoba I nay that their coui'o to-day Is unconstitutional, _ lb weak tnd dangerous. The hon. i genlleman.told us a moment ago that the Government is bound to act me chanically ',n this matter. Now, I ask Parliament this question : Are wo, upon tho inmnlalnt of tho minority, unsupported by evidence, without having mad; any Investigation, are wo lo he told taat tho law of tho major ity is to be, set aside? TIIIC GOVI-TINMIUNT AS JUDGES. If you tel me this, then I say It was a nere mockery to give to tho Prmlnco of Manitoba the right to lcghhi to upon this ques tion. It Is. truo hon. gentlemen say thnt tloy stand' upon tho constitution. I toko Issue with them. I stand also upon the constitution, and I re3t tho case on the Judgment of every Canadian', nf all men who be lieve that above the constitution, nay, not above the constitution, but in lt, incorporated in every word and syl lable of It. there avu to be found those lawn of eternal truth and justice on which alono natiims can he founded. We are lohl that the I,eghitalun' of Mimllnba has the right to legislate In matter*] of_uducatUih. Is ilmt denied.' >"n, that It not denied. The T-cglsla* hue of -Manitoba has the right to es tablish Separate School",; this Is not de nied, 'phu Legislature or .Manitoba bus the right to abolish Hrparalo Schools; tills Is not de.nb d. Somebody sayH no. The Judicial Committee of the Prlvy Cnuncll says ye:-. The .TinHi-hil f'niii- mlttee h,i-i decided that the Leghda- turo had a light to pass that legl.t- lion; but t lie constitution aU-o says that although tin.- .Manitoba. Le-flalatnre bad the right to puss that not, the minority has an nppenl to thbi Government and to th! i Parliament; but ugaln I assert that if you loll me tint thbi appeal la to he granted ns a matter of course without an Inquiry, wltlioul any Investigation whatever, I repeat what I said a mo ment ago, thai this power n\' legisla tion on education was a moat fatal gift to place in the bnuda of the Pro vince, it was not only a fatal gPt, but lt was a delusive right. It was a snare to entrap the Ijcglslstiire .into humiliation, pecause. If they had not tho right to pans legislation, If lt wan far beyond the power of the Province, then the Provincial Government were entrapped into tho belief that they roiinessed that power. Put, though the ijec;b)|atuve of Manitoba ' had the right to pass that legislation, tho minority of Manitoba has the right to come to this Parlia ment to a'dc redrenti for this griev ance. That redreas must be baned on one condition 'that the minority of Manitoba alleges and proves a wrong ouch an the hon. gentleman has described, a wrong which appeals to the heart and mind -nlj every man, which Is ,l violation of those .sacred rights wdiieli Cud has Implanted In the br -ast of every man, and whbh the fin "k pnet has called Heaven';-, l;i\v, iniu'rl! ten and unchnn-jrubl". L understand the position tali en by the minority in the Produce of Manitoba In their petitions b> be that Li' y have such a grlevam * to oif r to tli" people ol' Canada. They say in their p'-tillon that their con:;i t- niii'H are outi\i.'-<d; and, if their con- M< leiicc s are oul raged, lt se-nns to me that this in the opinion of j'Very man would he held to be one of those violations of Heuveii'fi law, unwritten nun luielinnrjeabh*. They nay moic. They -jay that they made a compact between themselves and tlio Government, of Canada, and that a efjiiip.se t was made between tho Crown of. Kng- land and themselves, and that tbi ; has been violated, and if a com pact to which the Crown was a party was violated I hold, at nil events ho my part, that this niight to bo held to bo one of the vUhIoiib of Thene ' ine the ^l'M^anecs which the minority of IM(ivilt\>ha luvo to urge" upon this Parliament. How are wo what the facts are? How are caslon. j charge th"m v/ll h' deceit either four yeais ajjo fir to-day; they i uu < boose between lii'1 option; but tin re hi f.ccelt In noun way, tin-re lias been dec i It all ulong, and, beeauao t In re has been sub'ei vleiiey inexped iency all along, thc'-U'.uhm Is as dlf- lleult of solution ns lt Is at th'^"present time, jiut e\s u under the terms of tho derive i endered by the Judgnn nt of tlio l'rlvy ("oum 11 tin re wna not, that con- ;eqni.|u.e which api"iirs tontiacli to it to-dn;. It may :kcm Invldloua in a man of my creed and nice ihal I I liollld HMMli-tl the bie.l't nt tlibl 1)111. I do so because [ am of the creed and rnco of the nilnoiity. I do so booauso I be lieve that the minority have a strong case In present to t)n: pi nple of Canada. whenever they have tin- < banco to do no, and i do not want He |r cas-j to r'"-t on f.u 'ehrind-; of any kind. Let tho trutii be presented nnd I b( lb ve It will appeal to the heart and fonaolonce of any man, no mm |ei v* hat bis creed and I'm e, but J do not want the ease to go on fsbie fact.; inc:ii-nted by hon. gen tlemen opposite. I rpnlte a moment ago In regnrd to the refepuce to the J'ri\y Council and tho ques tion ^whether thi! <government had the fie, ]it to pass ihese remedial ord -is. i-ihall we br- told that the fjov- f-rnment heie will place on tin- answer to this question a greater weight than. vas placed on It by the minority themselves ? Pet me reh-r, jdr, to tho argument of Mr. l-.wart. the counsel of the minority bi-lore the .ludlelsl Com- mlttie of the l'rlvy Council. Here It . Is : -"lii'fmv closing 1 should lllu: to say ii word or two as to what we aro seeking. Ai has nlir-ndy be. n remade- are nrit asking for any deolara- |o tie* c-tont of the n-lli-r to b*P iv the t iovnior-Cetieral. Wo ei], we t ion aa given m'-ri ly he has and to a ' that It .-diould lie held that Up lo know we to deal with them except by Investi gation and by inquiry ? t-'lr, we vay this is the position that ought to be taken by everybody. ThU ii* the posi tion I havo taken myself. I know there _m e some lum. gentehi'en on the' other side of the IIou.'c who controvert It, and I Will deal wltii them Immediately. I know what is their ground for saying tli -re N no necessity for inquiry, Their ground In that the'ciiso has been r.etlh-J '-y the Judicial CoiVunltteo of the l'rlvy Coun cil, and the decree leave:- them no option to do anything hut one thing, what they are doing to-day direct in terference. Such is their conclusion, If so, let us inqulie into It for a moniont. They tell us the facts have been set tled by the decree of the Privy I'oun- cil, and there cannot he any qui. s- tloji now for the <rovorann ni to In vestigate and determine. Are the facts better known xo-iluy than tlcv vcrr* four years tigo, when the reference was made to the Judicial OommUie-i of the l'rlvy Council ? IIavo v.-e inure know lodge to-day ? An hon. member TYe do not require it. Mr, Laurler I will conic to that by- and-hye. Are the facts, J ask, better known to-day than tiny v.-eu- lour years ago V The knowledge we have to-day Is the knowledge we hud four years ago, and no more, pet me recall the attention ot the House one. more to tlie reference wlileh was made to t lie courts, Mrsl to the Supreme Coin i, and then to the Judicial CommiU'-e ol' the Privy Council. Tin- lien, death man (Sir Charles Tup per) a few mo ments ago lead some of the question... There were hIx, but some of tivm may be dismissed. The llr.-d quo.-stlju was this : "Is the appeal referred to in the said memorials ami petitions and as serted thereby such uu appeal n.i Is admissible by sub-section ;> of section itf of the Pritlsh North Auvrica ait, ]Ki;7, or by sub-section li of section .> nf the Manitoba act, :::! VIctorl i tP7(), chapter !1, Canada V" To this question ' tho answer was, yes, that the appeal] reiorred to in the said memorials and petitions is such an appeal as is ad- misiblo. The second question was a-- follows : "Are the grounds set to In the petitions and ]ncMnor|-'iJ^yM*^'L|1 ] may be the subjee^--^J^llatorlai authority^jUWg^fU^tfon r>i to which 1 ose iLttcntlon of tho Ilotise. s as follows ; "Has his Kxcel- loncy tho Governor-General in Council power to make the declarations or remedial orders which are aslced for In the said memorials and petitions, assuming tho .material faits to he as stated therein, or has his Excellency the Governor-General in Council any other Jurisdiction in the premises ?" Assuming the material facts to be as stated therein ; assum ing the facts to bo as stated .therein, what, was tho answer to this question V Tho answer was in the afUrmative, of course; that, assuming tho material facts to be aa rtated In the petition, then this Government has the right to pass the remedial orders which are asked of.them. 1 usk. were thu Gov ernment when they drafted this refer ence to tho courts of the same opinion as thov are nt the present time? Were they of the opinion that the faetR were well known and required no investiga tion. If they were of that opinion, why did they not say so In the reference sent to tho courts'? If thoy were of that opinion, that tho facts'required no investigation, then I want to know why did they ask arbltrnrment on a false statement of facts ? If they were not of the same opinion and could not state thnt tho facts wore well known, then I aslc why do thoy tell us to-day that no investigation is required? A judgment has been ren dered on a certain statement which as sumed the facts to be true, and the an swer wna given In tho. af firmative. Thaso lion. gentlemen tell us to-day that tho facts are well known and require- no investi gation; still, when they went before the courts which had to decide' the question, they did not hold timt posi tion, but they hold that the facto were very doubtful. T charge thorn with de- celt on ono oconulon or on the other QC-. four Wep title thoy inrl'idict Ion to bear our prayer 'cr.ijit ip. ".inn- relief ir he thinks I roper to do so " The deel: ion was that tin- i'o\tfnor In Council had jurbsdlf- tlon to make the icuK-dlal order.-, IT he thought proper ; but. how was lie to crijii" to ii coiif ludou vfi-jit by lnv -sti- gatlon of the facts " And what was the con-.truct Ion out upon the judgment bv t he minority thcim-elves -..In n tie y came beton- the Privy Coun- < !1 oi Canada? Pid Mr. Pwart, the f'inris'1 lorth' minority, liss'the Gov ernment were bound to act imm'-diate- 1/ v. ithmit an}, more hit-uirv mlo tho f.o ij. ? Why, the very first thing that Mi. I*:wort prupovd to do was to put In lore tie l'ri\ \ ' 'niinci! of Canada many f.icfi which In his ooinion should Induce tlie Government of Cam-do and the I'nrlhun.Mit of Cairida to grant to the minority that relief v Inch he was "erhhi,.; for. Mr. Kuart commenced_hy .Mating That he resled bis ea.ie upon or live fuct.4 which, being proved, suUhlent, in his Judgment, to en- tho minority to the relief which were seeking. The. first is to bo found at page lili of the book. Mr. Kwnrt Mays : "My ilrst argument Is ill'-' ; The people of Canada mado n, solemn agreeineiittmKln^ftlaniTnSir tlie schools should bo separ ate." lie nsked that If that agreement had been mado and if u were proveil to have been made, tlieti U should bind the people of Can ada in honor to-nm-i-H-UiLn it against tho people of Manitoba. Mr. Kwart's hco- ond argument wan a consequence of the (list. He said: "The legislature of Manitoba wai composed at tho out set of a popular branch and of n. Hen- ate, and ji few years afterwards tho Sriiate was abolished." Well, second chambers are net very popular nowa days, but If they have n value, and they should have that value, It is that they ought to be and are a protection for the minority. The Roman Catholic minority in Manitoba, Mr. Kwnrt *-i'!d, did not view In a fav orable light tlie abolition of their S' nate. but they were made to agree to it up in the rcpr< mentations made to, them that their schools and their insti tutions should never be tamp -red with by the P..gb latnre of Manitoba, and it seemed to nr; that this is a strong and powerful argument In favor of the min ority. If they could show tint they we p.; induced to make away with one of the bulwarks which was ;i protection "to ibeir rights and libertie.-i nnd prlv- il'-ge.;, It :-.ecms to me It Is a hU'ui'.j* c;..-.e, whir b should go in their favor in tbi' Judgment oi' nil Canadians who love their eoinitry Then Mr. Kwarl's third nrgum-mi was: "Thru the Lib eral party in Manitoba when coming; In to power in LS.iT had made a compact with tlio minority that their sf hools w./iild not lie inter- ff red with." The fourth argu ment was allied to the third ar- guue-nt. and was that similar agreement been madt , and proceeded ns follows, and I call tho at tention or the ibiure to the language used by Mr. Kuart : subsequently a bad also Mr. Kwnrt My lirst J'inn- argument", then, are rounded npim ju'riMMiii'iils mul nroinl-o-; : l-'h-nl, llm ri'iapin : mad" hy tin* Dominion of "muula ; hi-cund. the proinNe-, inudt- by the 1'rotest- imis nf Miinitt)lj;i ; ilih-il. the pi-oiuI-.e^ nimlo hy tho I.lhc::il \r.w\v in MumIioIki ; -mti, foiirlli, i lie proiul.s,-;, undt* hy the <; tvi-uwa<" Co\erniiient. All ilnjM' a^rei-ineiip., t-li',."u, I'm-nwiv V^vowui ^"^' "' "^ * r i L ,!^3*uf.e7,ple of Cuu.da. For o ".LJ^wtfiT liiMVevr-l. the Iabe.-:l piirt.V iWriinaflii, the I'rotestiuits of t'anailu and the a* 11pi*.- of CiniiHl.L lui\e not yet miidc Ihem.selM'h ic-ipmiMble ; ami to tlieni ! lift my i'.vch wlbh cnp.thli'iiet', that when th* I'ncis nre Uiidwii, then ilmt which has been, ilom* will bv them hi* repudliited, and all In justice remedied. With ii bill ' I'ibu of my responsibility for the tdateineii't. I mid than In my liiunbh! judumenr Ciimuhi would not be a til: place for an honest niiia to live la were Its Inhiibb.uit^ to I'etmiln uiiurousisl to Indleinuit nelloti by tin* relation of uucli hbnmefnly pei'Ihlhnw uetion. There was an appeal made hero to tlie Id be nils of Canada, to tha Protestants of Canada, and to the peo ple of Canada, and Mr. Kwart ven tured the opinion that as soon as those facts would be known theso injustices would be remedied. But I am aorry to a ay for the* people of Manitoba, fer tile minority of Manitoba, that Mr* Kwart, having supported all these con tentions with proof and afllUavlt, the hon. gentleman who re- prosenLod the Oreenway Government on that occasion, Air. McCarthy, tho member for Simooe, -dated that bo wanted to controvert that evidence-and wished j-ome time to do It, and Mr, K\vnrlF In my estimation, very impru dently, rather than undergo the delay, because he wanted that remedial bill last soHsion, withdrew all hla aflldavlts and his evidence when last session, withdrew all his affidavits when Sir Mackenzie Bowell stated that they would allow Mr. McCarthy to pro- duco aflulavlts In reply to those pro duced by Mr. Kwart. Mr. Kwart them said: . "Allow nV to rtiiy- that that would throw the lhatter over so late that it would be impossible that nnythlnfi could be dojiu- this y- ... and rather than that (ilrould happen j v nidd with draw th" niiidavits, ami re^t the enso upon tho (ilher ninteilal." W--U. ulr, tho Llhorajls of-Canada, tho Pvotost- unta of Canaan, tho people of Can ada, upon Svhom Mr. Kwart rolled to como to this jr-snuo of tho minority upon these facta bolus known, worn deprived of\ tho very ovldenco upon which ho rajlcd hla caao for a, favor-