Huntsville Oral Histories

00:00

this is Wayne Cooper it is August 12

00:02

2015 I'm interviewing a longtime

00:06

resident of fun so please introduce

00:08

yourself and give us your name birth

00:11

year and birthplace my name is donaill

00:16

do in atl Jack Nichols and I see Kate

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ALS i was born in huntsville on july

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nineteenth nineteen thirty-one tell us a

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little bit about your childhood memories

00:33

parents and home life in particular to

00:36

start with I had a good home life my

00:41

father and mother and I had a sister

00:45

younger four years younger than I and we

00:49

had a good lift we lived on the top of

00:52

mary street and I never when we got our

00:57

first where my father got his first car

01:01

we used to get in every night after

01:04

after dinner and we drive down the West

01:08

End take a trip if we did it I'm sure

01:11

every night that drive home and that was

01:14

our the end of our day to this funny

01:18

Trevor did and we did that for many

01:21

years and then I went to high school up

01:26

public and high school in Huntsville and

01:30

find the after finishing that and my

01:34

mother passed away just as I was

01:36

finishing high school at 39 years old

01:40

she was very young and I was had decided

01:48

that I would like to join the business

01:52

of Wardell business and so I i went to a

01:57

Ryerson in Toronto and I took a course

02:03

called retail merchandising it was a

02:06

two-year course and actually was very

02:11

interesting

02:12

very helpful and the only thing that I

02:15

have regretted of that whole two years

02:18

is that they had a taping course was

02:24

included in this course and I thought I

02:28

don't need to know how to type we've got

02:31

three girls in the office they they can

02:33

read all the letters and do all the

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taping I wish I hadn't said that are

02:39

done that but I go to a movie during the

02:42

type of course let's go back and we bet

02:46

to your earliest memory of a trip to

02:49

Toronto remember the purpose of that

02:51

trip well yes we had relatives in

02:53

Toronto the lived in Toronto and we used

02:58

to go down at least once a year our

03:00

family my father's guard and we leave

03:06

here first thing in the morning

03:07

properties seven or eight o'clock in the

03:09

morning and we drive to your way yeah

03:11

that was lunch time by the time we got

03:14

to Orillia we have lunch and then we go

03:18

on back in the car drive down go through

03:22

barrier around Barry and when we got to

03:27

just north of Toronto we'd start looking

03:31

watching who could see the first street

03:34

car because in those days the streetcar

03:38

did come up I'm not sure how quite how

03:41

far but not not anywhere near Barry so

03:44

we'd watch for our first street car that

03:46

was a big thing then we drive down if we

03:49

go through the parts of Toronto and till

03:52

we got to our relatives home and we'd

03:55

stay there for probably a week and have

03:58

a nice visit and do different things and

04:01

maybe do a little shopping and so on and

04:04

it was kind of a yearly thing we did

04:07

this for for many years and I guess we

04:11

outgrew it or my parents are good and

04:13

that was no longer but

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so it was it was interested in different

04:19

it was nice to go because there were

04:22

many many people who lived in Huntsville

04:25

that haven't been passed bracebridge

04:27

they try to where's that you know never

04:30

heard of it when I got involved in the

04:34

business we would take some of our staff

04:38

and we'd go down to uh to the Royal York

04:40

Hotel and and they would put on up the

04:45

companies that we dealt with what rent

04:49

rooms and they put on displays and then

04:51

we can could own a buy for our spring

04:54

and summer business and then the later

04:57

on we got on for the fall and winter

04:59

business and one people when we'd say

05:03

we're from Huntsville they'd say my

05:06

goodness how long did it take to get

05:09

here you know they thought Huntsville

05:11

was up on the article thing but yeah it

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was it was going to experience and we

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did this for many many years and then

05:21

well after i was married my wife Pat

05:25

became very involved in the business

05:28

fact she and I ended up owning and

05:32

running it for several years until we

05:35

decided that we would had enough and in

05:39

the 1980s we closed the business at a

05:43

big sale we had an auction and we had a

05:46

lot of I guess you'd call him antique

05:50

furnishings and so on which went on the

05:53

auction and it was very interested if we

05:56

cleaned it right out too but when we got

05:59

finished we had one small rock with

06:02

about three lady addresses on it and

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that was the end of war dells so was it

06:07

was quite quite interesting a lot of

06:11

interesting people we dealt with them

06:14

and a lot of people that would come in

06:18

to visit my uncle Claude Wardell when he

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was involved in the business and they

06:25

come in to borrow money from and

06:28

out he take them back to our office and

06:31

he get a piece of paper and it might be

06:34

over maybe fifty cents maybe at the most

06:37

a dollar and he'd insist that these

06:39

people sign an IOU for that whatever

06:43

your mom was and then that went on with

06:47

my father he did the same thing and then

06:50

it was my turn and I did the same thing

06:53

for many many years and we had up a chap

06:56

that I'd like to mention his name

06:58

because that name is still in Huntsville

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his name was Russell ward and he worked

07:05

in the lumber camps back up in nero

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oakland park and he'd he'd come in in

07:14

the summertime actually or when he when

07:17

he retired after many years he came in

07:21

and he'd come to be in see dawn I'd uh I

07:25

need a little money so I'd loan him in

07:29

those days I would be big money I loaned

07:31

him fifteen dollars and he said I'll be

07:34

back my pension check comes in on the

07:37

middle September I'll come back and pay

07:40

and he never ever missed a payment for

07:43

many many years and you know so one he

07:48

passed away one of the ward family I

07:51

can't recall it was follow me to see of

07:55

Russell old as any money didn't know a

07:59

thing paid it every every time he paid

08:02

one time he got the money and it was a

08:06

enormous day there was at a big parade

08:09

and he was involved in the parade and I

08:14

think he's had a few drinks and and he

08:17

came in and got the fifteen dollars in

08:20

he came back about an hour later he was

08:23

quite upset Donny says I've got a

08:26

problem he said I've lost my money he

08:30

said i think what i did when i went to

08:33

put it in my pocket I I missed my pocket

08:36

and now he said I'm really in trouble to

08:40

think you could

08:41

we have some more so I said sure Russ no

08:44

problems I gave him another fifteen

08:46

dollars what she signed for and he was

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back on that one of his old age pension

08:53

check and he paid back the thirty

08:54

dollars this time instead of the 15 and

08:58

we had a lot of people the customers

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like that over the years that would

09:03

always have to have a little extra money

09:06

and in those days you know 50 Cent's was

09:11

a lot of money and these fellows used to

09:14

not all of them but some of them what

09:18

one is littless fifty cents then they

09:21

could get over to the liquor store and

09:23

buy a bottle of wine pretty good wine

09:25

for fifty cents a bottle a little more

09:29

than that now so anyway we be carried on

09:35

with the business my wife that I and she

09:40

had rheumatoid arthritis and she became

09:44

very she could hardly walk in your hands

09:47

she couldn't use that well so we decided

09:51

that we closed the store this is in the

09:54

1980s so the store was the business is

09:58

almost honored years old at this point

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so we put a big sign every februari we

10:04

used to have a big sale and we give the

10:10

first ten customers become a dollar bill

10:13

or some always gave the first few

10:15

customers goody to get them here and

10:19

we'd have people lined up the whole main

10:21

street waiting to get in because we

10:24

wouldn't open the door wouldn't unlock

10:26

until nine o'clock and we put on a

10:31

frente wake up made up we got quite a

10:34

name for Ward else having their big club

10:37

annual sale and so when we decided to

10:42

close it we did the same thing only we

10:45

put it as a retiree sale instead of just

10:50

our yearly sale and

10:53

uh we closed it and we ended up we had

10:57

an auction at one time I wanted it

11:00

during that we ended up with a rack like

11:06

a rocket clothes rack with probably

11:08

about three dresses on it and we sold

11:11

everything else is gone bordelles was

11:13

gone we sold we had our own hangers war

11:17

delica bordelles the busy merchants

11:20

printed on them they were wooden and we

11:25

got it we just don't have it nothing

11:29

left anymore after that and so what for

11:33

me it was a very interesting and

11:38

valuable part of my life for most of my

11:42

life at that time and when I got

11:46

finished and got everything cleaned up

11:49

we sold the building and no algonquin up

11:54

fitters is in there it has been in there

11:56

for quite some time now and but we still

12:00

have someone I still have some of the

12:02

the old things from more Dells which are

12:06

nice to have my daughter was at nah but

12:11

married for I think 25 years or more and

12:14

has 33 boys two of them finished

12:18

University the other one just starting

12:21

so I guess I I shouldn't say I guess

12:26

I've had a very good life long life I

12:30

just turned 84 years old this past July

12:35

and I have no complaint the only

12:40

complaint I have now is that I can't

12:44

remember things you know if I think

12:46

you're doing very well done I'm going to

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seed your memory on a couple of things

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what are your memories of the war del

12:52

Holm in this film the war del Holm was

12:56

odd located i'm trying to think of the

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name of the street do you remember where

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i am an elm street at west road west

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road west rule

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that was the old Wardell Matthew War

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dolls hold home well it wasn't old then

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I guess but it was his home and we spent

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a lot of time as children in this house

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with we had Christmas there we have

13:24

birthdays there we had free while

13:27

everything even the odd funeral I think

13:29

we had there to over the many years and

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the hope of the home is still there it's

13:36

got to be well over a hundred years old

13:39

or people living in it still and now

13:42

it's at a look quite a bit of upgrades

13:45

so on over the years I haven't been in

13:47

it for many many years but it's it was

13:52

an old Huntsville original I believe I

13:54

think so yeah um you told me earlier

13:58

about a trip to Toronto a special trip

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to Toronto to see the king can you tell

14:03

me more about that yeah we the king and

14:07

queen were about to visit Toronto and we

14:12

had you know we had videos and things

14:14

that we could know what's going on and

14:19

we drove down and which took it's about

14:24

a four or five hour trip to Toronto and

14:27

to visit our relatives to stay with them

14:31

and we had a chance to see the king and

14:33

queen of England which was quite an

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exciting adventure in those days I can't

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remember what year but I was probably

14:42

about maybe in my teens when this

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happened so but I guess I remember um

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your first employment my first

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employment was at war Dells I was 12

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years old and we became a very very

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business busy at Christmastime read

15:06

everybody do the shopping their

15:08

Christmas shopping and so on and we

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didn't have modern cash registers or

15:14

anything so we had we had a

15:19

a metal line that went down to our

15:22

office and we put the customer's bill

15:25

and the customers money in this

15:30

container and pull it pull up but handle

15:35

and it would shoot the money down to the

15:38

office the girls in the office would

15:41

make the change and send it back to us

15:44

and this is how I often feel sorry that

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I didn't keep those things to have you

15:52

know as a memory but I don't I guess we

15:55

were so glad to get rid of them and get

15:57

cash registers what show we're so much

16:00

easier it took us a little while to

16:01

figure out how to work them but it was

16:06

good so you endured the technological

16:08

change yeah um tell me a little bit

16:11

about your your observations of the end

16:15

of the Second World War celebrations in

16:17

Huntsville yeah a second world war i

16:20

think i was about probably 14 at the end

16:24

of the war and of course all of a sudden

16:28

the war was over and everybody was

16:30

celebrating them including the whole

16:34

town hot self and read the main street

16:36

you could hardly move on for people

16:38

celebrating and driving up and down and

16:42

it was really exciting to see that the

16:46

war was over and in Canada and the

16:50

states and so on had won the war so we

16:53

got wicked then get back to normal how

16:56

do the people celebrate down where their

16:58

fireworks serving like that I can't

17:01

recall fireworks I think most of the fun

17:04

I can remember getting on the back of a

17:07

truck with a whole bunch of other people

17:09

and driving up down the main street

17:10

singing and hollering them I don't I

17:14

don't I can't recall fireworks now they

17:18

could have been there may have been but

17:19

that's a long time ago that's the look

17:22

at ya thank you for that done now I know

17:24

that you received your elementary and

17:26

high school education in US

17:28

I'd like you to make comment on some

17:31

memorable teachers classmates special

17:35

events that occurred in the schools

17:36

while you were going there I concede

17:39

your memory Harry Thornton was the

17:41

principal yes any any thoughts and

17:45

memories of Harry in particular Harry

17:48

Thornton was just the first principle

17:51

when I went into high school he was the

17:56

principal and he was quite strict but he

18:01

was a good principle and he ran up good

18:03

school and for many many years until he

18:07

retired and I made a lot of friends over

18:12

not during that time in Huntsville high

18:17

school there are too many of us left

18:20

anymore I had good friends like but Joss

18:25

key I'm trying to think some of the

18:30

others teen jersey on Teen Jersey a no

18:33

Tina I believe still living but passed

18:37

away about a year ago I also have my

18:41

younger cousin bill Nichols who I ended

18:45

up working for in that so funny emails

18:48

after I said we closed our war dells and

18:52

I work for bill for probably 15 or 16

18:57

years I guess and had a good

19:00

relationship there bill and I became

19:02

well I shouldn't say became our our

19:06

fathers were brothers and Bill and i

19:09

were really brothers too we we were we

19:16

were brothers more than than just

19:19

cousins we were first cousins but so we

19:23

had a great time bill unfortunately

19:26

passed away about a year ago and but he

19:30

was younger he was six is six years

19:33

younger than me and I still hanging in

19:37

there well they say about the good dying

19:40

young

19:41

yeah I remember going to the Fall Fair

19:46

every every September being marched over

19:49

to the falls there at the arena grounds

19:52

I was in elementary school do you

19:54

remember that happened doesn't remember

19:56

a 1-up episode that was really I thought

20:00

quite interesting and quite funny this

20:04

would be in September and all the school

20:06

kids would march over to the arena and

20:13

it was quite a big deal I was standing

20:16

out in front of our store with and there

20:19

were two or three Americans standing

20:21

there and they were watching all these

20:24

kids going by and waving and flags and

20:27

having a great time and then one fellow

20:29

looked at the others they said look at

20:31

all those kids my goodness they must

20:35

have a lot of cold nights up here at the

20:37

lawyer indeed that was true yeah um

20:41

backdated to your experiences at Ryerson

20:45

and coming back to huntsville um you

20:48

took retailing what was the what was the

20:50

phrase that you used retailing retail

20:53

merchandising authoress what did it

20:54

called the course it was a two-year

20:56

course I need a lot of good friends

20:59

there I kept in touch with not a lot of

21:03

them but one particular one who

21:05

unfortunately passed away about a year

21:08

and a half ago I used to hit a cottage

21:10

up to here in Huntsville and we became

21:13

very good friends over all those years

21:15

but as you get older and everybody else

21:21

gets older along with you so I don't

21:23

have too many friends left I understand

21:27

and again we may be reiterating

21:31

something but you you went to Ryerson

21:33

really at the urging of your father and

21:36

grandmother yes my father at this time

21:41

was very very active and

21:44

and my grandmother and my uncle Claude

21:48

Wardell own Wardell store and he was

21:54

quite interested and hopeful that i

21:56

would go through get some proper

21:59

education and come back and end up on

22:02

the store which I did and I've never

22:06

regretted it we had many I have many

22:10

many years in this door and made a lot

22:14

of friends and it more dolls I still

22:19

have people say what I really miss your

22:22

store and you know we're closed in

22:24

nineteen eighty and now this is 19 @

22:29

2015 so I had a pretty good name over

22:33

after all those years I like to touch on

22:36

your great-grandfather Matthew Wardell

22:38

it was a general merchant in town

22:40

whooping does his store here in the

22:42

1890s and try to relate to us some of

22:46

the lesser known facts about Matthew

22:48

that not just everyone with no but you

22:50

would know because you're a member of

22:52

the family when now my great-grandfather

22:56

was I guess he was pretty still active

23:01

in the business and they had this chap

23:04

came in they used to stay up until

23:06

midnight and on 30 nights and this chap

23:12

came in you wanted to buy a pair of

23:14

pants to work in and so Matthew showed

23:18

him the pants and told him how much they

23:23

were and he decided that they couldn't

23:26

couldn't pay that much and it probably

23:28

they be twenty dollars at the very most

23:31

maybe even not much that much but anyway

23:34

so they bickered and dickered and fella

23:37

left and came back a couple of times

23:40

Matthew wouldn't wouldn't lower his

23:44

price so the fellow finally came back

23:48

just awfully close to midnight that's

23:52

when they closed but anyway he got in

23:56

before the

23:57

store was locked up and closed and he

24:00

said that he'd take the pants he finally

24:02

decided he'd buy the pants and I got

24:06

father of a great grandfather's price so

24:10

my grandfather great-grandfather they

24:12

looked at him he says you're too late it

24:15

felt that what do you mean he said we're

24:17

closed we don't do business on Sunday

24:20

and he wouldn't sell the patents well I

24:26

understand your grandfather your

24:27

great-grandfather Matthew was

24:30

responsible for the loss of its first

24:32

store in hustle in 1911 how did that

24:34

happen well yeah they had the store

24:36

which is across the street from for the

24:39

present building is and they had a big

24:43

big box stove I guess you'd call it in

24:47

the store do well to help heat the

24:51

building is well they lived above the

24:53

store in those days and and he put a

24:58

whole bunch of cardboard and paper and

25:01

lit of matching got a great big fire

25:04

burning in actually it got so bad that

25:08

it burned the star dog or the whole

25:10

building down and then they had to

25:13

locate across the street from where that

25:16

where the present building is

25:18

understanding math you liked his name

25:22

and can you tell us the story about

25:25

about Matthew wanting you to be named

25:30

Matthew yes when I was born I guess I

25:35

was the first well I was the first

25:37

grandchild or a child born and Matthew

25:43

offered my father five dollars if they

25:46

need me Matthew and my dad turned him

25:50

down that's that which is kind of mean

25:53

but I'm for at fortunately I have a

25:58

grandson called Matthew he has a twin

26:01

brother which is really nice

26:03

for me wonderful now you are the last

26:07

dollar Wardell start family business

26:09

spanning four generations starting with

26:12

yourself so everyone will know please

26:14

trace your lineage back to Matthew

26:17

Wardell the founder Wardell story so

26:22

should i start with bathrooms now when

26:23

you start with me I was the last person

26:28

involved with more dollar company and

26:32

those days over the years we've become

26:34

an incorporated company and so on and

26:39

before when i had it i bought my share

26:45

from my father Jack Nichols and he and I

26:50

for some time after we had bought Claude

26:54

Waddell's edges we ran the business for

27:00

several years my father and I he became

27:05

unable to handle the affairs of the

27:10

business anymore so i bought my share

27:14

from him and so it wasn't a business

27:19

that even though it was a for generation

27:22

business each person that was involved

27:26

in that business bought their share they

27:30

weren't left the sheer i believe i might

27:33

have been left a little bit at the end

27:35

from my father but most of it was

27:37

purchased by me now the previous

27:40

generation to your father was your

27:43

grandmother and what was her name and

27:45

how did she die into Matthew Wardell my

27:49

grandmother was Maude Nichols she

27:55

married a man by the name in nickels and

27:59

unfortunately I don't think she'd been

28:01

married that long she became pregnant

28:04

with my father and her husband died

28:10

before my father was born so I never

28:14

knew my grandfather

28:15

but that's how that's part of our

28:18

history and Maude was Matthew word else

28:22

doc Matthew was it yes okay now we got

28:26

that straight now I think that we've

28:29

indicated pretty thoroughly to the

28:32

audience so far that ordell's store was

28:36

pretty important to Huntsville it was

28:37

really a hustle institution for more

28:41

than 90 years approaching a hundred

28:43

years besides longevity one in your mind

28:46

made war dells an institution and that's

28:49

tough think what made as far as I can

28:52

see or from my experience when my father

28:57

and my father's brother grenville

29:00

nichols became involved in the business

29:05

then in those days we didn't have

29:08

tourist business like we do now or did

29:11

for many years my father and his brother

29:14

Grenville I would load up a car with

29:18

merchandise and they go around to the

29:21

resorts and set up a display of the

29:24

different kinds of merchandise we

29:28

carried and that was really how the

29:32

tourist business got started because

29:35

these people come up and they wouldn't

29:38

be like it is now but but there would be

29:40

several people who come from the states

29:43

or Toronto or wherever to have a holiday

29:46

or maybe build a cottage or something so

29:49

they got to know that that's well had a

29:53

good at least one good store in it that

29:55

they kick him in and do their shopping

29:56

and that's how our business our tourist

29:59

business really got started even before

30:02

that I'm thinking that you mentioned

30:06

that Wardell store really grew up with

30:10

herself yes it did grow up with

30:13

Huntsville many many many years ago on

30:20

the people that workers that work in the

30:23

bush cutting lumber and so on we get

30:26

paid by check or with a check and they

30:33

would come in and the staff award else

30:37

would make sure that they had enough

30:40

money on him to cash the check for these

30:43

guys because they would live they would

30:46

work until you know friday by the time

30:49

they got in there was no such thing as a

30:51

bank being open banks were an open on

30:54

saturday so they were able to cash their

30:57

checks at Wardell and this is how i

31:01

guess how it helped grow no one else

31:05

grow too because they were had

31:10

merchandise to sell and they also could

31:13

cash checks for these fellows and it

31:16

worked out quite well to that end then

31:19

Ward else became a bank really yes now

31:24

you excited to me some time ago a case

31:29

in point rather extreme case in point

31:32

but the man that came in and bought two

31:34

suitcases could you tell us that stuff

31:36

yes this chap would come in he was one

31:39

of the workers in the back in the in the

31:41

lumber business he came in many years

31:44

ago and he bought two suitcases and he

31:48

he by fella both with clothes new

31:52

clothing that he bought from for more

31:54

dells and then he had the whole weekend

31:58

to put up in order to put in and so on

32:01

so he'd find himself a lady friend and

32:04

and he'd spend a bit of time or the

32:08

weekend with this lady friend and he

32:11

spend his money and by the time he was

32:15

the weekend was over he didn't have any

32:18

money left but he had two suitcases full

32:20

of clothing so he'd bring back one of

32:23

those suitcases to get his money back so

32:27

he wouldn't be completely out of money

32:29

and he did this for some time until

32:32

finally the stuff ordell's realized what

32:36

he was up to they were

32:37

River his bank so we refused to sell

32:41

them any more clothing and wouldn't give

32:44

him any money for any of the clothing he

32:46

had but that was kind of an interesting

32:49

story very interesting one more thing

32:52

you mentioned to me that Ward else phone

32:55

number was number one what does that

32:58

signify to you or else had the first

33:01

phone in Huntsville and as a result the

33:05

phone number was number one so when

33:09

somebody pick up their phone and in one

33:12

of foam war tells the operator would say

33:15

number please and the first one would

33:17

say number one perfect we're going to

33:24

close down our interview pretty soon but

33:27

before we do I want you two to talk

33:31

about briefly what you did workwise

33:34

after war dells was closed but can you

33:37

elaborate yes after we closed the store

33:41

and we had an auction and you know got

33:46

everything out of the business out of

33:48

the building and so on and then I ended

33:52

up renting the building and then

33:54

eventually selling the building I work

33:57

for my cousin bill Nichols who owned and

34:01

operated the council in emails and Bill

34:06

had offered me a job after I closed

34:08

wargals and which I accepted and I

34:15

worked there for 16 years and I ended up

34:20

as bills credit manager so I spent quite

34:24

a bit of time in small claims court and

34:28

collecting money because in those days a

34:31

lot of people didn't seem to think they

34:34

have to pay bill I just you know he

34:36

could he could handle it without being

34:38

paid so i had tyke i added up make pay

34:42

my salary by the money i collected for

34:45

several years just like the fact that

34:48

you spent so much time

34:50

coppin small claims court you actually

34:53

have a reputation around town being a

34:55

very nice guy over the years we've had

34:58

many good friends in town and I know

35:01

some of them but I'd like to drop a few

35:03

names and ask you to comment on your

35:05

relationship with the memories of these

35:07

people first of all let's start with Bob

35:09

and Jane Hutchison Bob and Jane

35:11

Hutchison were make neighbors of my wife

35:14

and I they lived up the hill above me

35:16

ask brother and over the years that we

35:22

bought as a bit older than I but my wife

35:26

and I had a sauna that we bought and put

35:29

it in our basement and Bob and Jane

35:32

would come down quite frequently in the

35:34

wintertime and have a sauna and as we

35:37

thought we got to know them much better

35:39

too and by my kids my children or our

35:44

children and dodges and children played

35:48

together for many years now we know bill

35:52

Nichols was your cousin but could you

35:54

comment further on on your socializing

35:57

with Bill and his wife Marian bill and I

36:02

I was six years older than bill and so

36:07

you know what's up like that being that

36:09

much older we really didn't really get

36:13

to know each other until we were

36:16

probably late teens or early 20s and

36:21

this is before I even start to work for

36:23

bill and we became much closer we did a

36:28

lot of things together and then as I

36:31

mentioned earlier I was working for him

36:36

and I ended up with his credit manager

36:39

and so then you know we were we were

36:43

like brothers we really were his wife

36:46

Marian kept saying you know your

36:48

brothers and I guess we were more like

36:50

brothers and cousins I know that you

36:54

went to school with bud Jesse and his

36:56

wife Kathy came from Toronto as your

36:58

wife Pat came in Toronto can you comment

37:01

on

37:01

your relationship with button Kathy

37:04

jockey yes bud the caffeine and my wife

37:08

and Pat came down so about the same time

37:13

very close to the same time they're both

37:15

from Toronto didn't know anybody up here

37:19

except button I and it was I think it

37:22

was quite lonely for both of them as we

37:25

became as we had children and so on and

37:29

Pat and Kathy would be seen pushing

37:34

carriages up the main street each of

37:37

them and they became very very good

37:40

friends for many many years and we were

37:44

always friends but just passed away

37:46

about a year ago I still see Kathy who

37:52

is still a sweetheart and we're still

37:57

friends after all those years and that's

37:59

going back 60 years I guess no dying

38:04

even very very generous with your time

38:06

it's been a very long interview perhaps

38:08

from your point of view not for mine but

38:10

from New York's I like thank you very

38:12

much for your unique contribution

38:13

tonsils are all history project Thank

38:16

You Wayne and I've known Wayne for some

38:18

years to i curled with them so we're not

38:21

strangers and we haven't got a fight

38:24

that thank you for giving me the

38:28

opportunity to talk about my life you

38:31

thank you